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	<title>Comments on: Max for Live and Volta: Are we scientists?</title>
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	<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/</link>
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		<title>By: Brian</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-6454</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jan 2010 02:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-6454</guid>
		<description>Hey it&#039;s been a year since this post and I&#039;m curious where the thought has taken you. With all your analog hotness and a MOTU interface, has Volta made itself useful? I was surprised to read my own response, as I was excite about Max4Live and ambivalent about Volta. In the year since I&#039;ve decided consciously to stay away from the likes of Max and dive down the modular hole, where Volta is really a friend. It&#039;s not nearly as fun as just twisting knobs and plugging cables as I record into Ableton (for later manipulation as you write), but Volta works so so well running sequences and allowing me to modulate stuff that I otherwise wouldn&#039;t.
Just curious where you&#039;ve landed...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey it&#8217;s been a year since this post and I&#8217;m curious where the thought has taken you. With all your analog hotness and a MOTU interface, has Volta made itself useful? I was surprised to read my own response, as I was excite about Max4Live and ambivalent about Volta. In the year since I&#8217;ve decided consciously to stay away from the likes of Max and dive down the modular hole, where Volta is really a friend. It&#8217;s not nearly as fun as just twisting knobs and plugging cables as I record into Ableton (for later manipulation as you write), but Volta works so so well running sequences and allowing me to modulate stuff that I otherwise wouldn&#8217;t.<br />
Just curious where you&#8217;ve landed&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: DGillespie</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3404</link>
		<dc:creator>DGillespie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:14:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3404</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m certainly a scientist.

Musician too, but also a scientist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m certainly a scientist.</p>
<p>Musician too, but also a scientist.</p>
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		<title>By: magic from space</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3403</link>
		<dc:creator>magic from space</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Jan 2009 18:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3403</guid>
		<description>the answer is yes we are scientists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the answer is yes we are scientists.</p>
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		<title>By: Books &#38; Backpack</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3399</link>
		<dc:creator>Books &#38; Backpack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 23:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3399</guid>
		<description>For Naval Gazers. Ableton are genuine fearless democratic enthusiasts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Naval Gazers. Ableton are genuine fearless democratic enthusiasts.</p>
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		<title>By: minz</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3397</link>
		<dc:creator>minz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 18:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3397</guid>
		<description>i agree with peter that what max4live offers is not really new, but i expect much of the integration. having a cool reaktor sequencer control a vst synth over midi inside live sounds easy, but it took me hours to get it too work. and i&#039;m fairly knowledgeable in this. similarly, with synthmaker, you&#039;re tied to the vst protocol, so forget controlling live8 gui elements for instance. i think max4live will allow people to easily do a lot of things in live8 that right now are impossible or really cumbersome.

whether a lot of people will actually build stuff in it? as with reaktor, there will probably be way more consumers than producers. but that&#039;s ok. usually these communities are all about sharing. so expect some cool tools that will become part of your everyday toolkit.

and yes the &#039;too much tools&#039; virus is out there. i tr to fight that by dividing my time between work and play. you need both, but most time should be devoted to work, if you&#039;re serious about it. fooling around with max4live would definitely be play. unless there&#039;s a really specific thing that i *need*. in the end it&#039;s all about discipline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i agree with peter that what max4live offers is not really new, but i expect much of the integration. having a cool reaktor sequencer control a vst synth over midi inside live sounds easy, but it took me hours to get it too work. and i&#8217;m fairly knowledgeable in this. similarly, with synthmaker, you&#8217;re tied to the vst protocol, so forget controlling live8 gui elements for instance. i think max4live will allow people to easily do a lot of things in live8 that right now are impossible or really cumbersome.</p>
<p>whether a lot of people will actually build stuff in it? as with reaktor, there will probably be way more consumers than producers. but that&#8217;s ok. usually these communities are all about sharing. so expect some cool tools that will become part of your everyday toolkit.</p>
<p>and yes the &#8216;too much tools&#8217; virus is out there. i tr to fight that by dividing my time between work and play. you need both, but most time should be devoted to work, if you&#8217;re serious about it. fooling around with max4live would definitely be play. unless there&#8217;s a really specific thing that i *need*. in the end it&#8217;s all about discipline.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter Kirn</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3396</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter Kirn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3396</guid>
		<description>Cool as Max for Live is, I think it&#039;s actually important not to overstate its importance. The thing is, people have already been creating Reaktor devices that run in Live, SynthMaker synths and FX that run in FL, Max patches they use with other software or via Pluggo, minus M4L... so we have a pretty good sample set of this stuff.

Obviously, you can get lost in these things. But I find that the DIY thing is actually often about simplifying. When you have to build stuff for youself, you often end up with *less* functionality than a big off-the-shelf tool. You may have to pare down to, say, a basic compositional idea -- and focus your music in the process. That&#039;s possible with Live, too, but then it&#039;s a reductive rather than additive process.

And most often, *because* these things can be time sucks, the people who are productive in them use them to solve simple problems. That was the case with the Reaktor patches our friend Jonathan Leonard built for Kore, for instance.

That said, there is one way in which you become scientist rather than musician, and that&#039;s when you program out all if the actual playing (which I find can be a problem with Live, too). But then, you can take Stefan Schmitt&#039;s approach and drop all the LFOs and automated envelopes and play everything live! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool as Max for Live is, I think it&#8217;s actually important not to overstate its importance. The thing is, people have already been creating Reaktor devices that run in Live, SynthMaker synths and FX that run in FL, Max patches they use with other software or via Pluggo, minus M4L&#8230; so we have a pretty good sample set of this stuff.</p>
<p>Obviously, you can get lost in these things. But I find that the DIY thing is actually often about simplifying. When you have to build stuff for youself, you often end up with *less* functionality than a big off-the-shelf tool. You may have to pare down to, say, a basic compositional idea &#8212; and focus your music in the process. That&#8217;s possible with Live, too, but then it&#8217;s a reductive rather than additive process.</p>
<p>And most often, *because* these things can be time sucks, the people who are productive in them use them to solve simple problems. That was the case with the Reaktor patches our friend Jonathan Leonard built for Kore, for instance.</p>
<p>That said, there is one way in which you become scientist rather than musician, and that&#8217;s when you program out all if the actual playing (which I find can be a problem with Live, too). But then, you can take Stefan Schmitt&#8217;s approach and drop all the LFOs and automated envelopes and play everything live! ;)</p>
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		<title>By: SoundSpirit</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3395</link>
		<dc:creator>SoundSpirit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 17:02:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3395</guid>
		<description>First great thing about max is that you can make plugin like volta in it. It has unlimited potential. For instance you can easily write such algorithms that generate note patterns that you couldn&#039;t imagined off. Imagine effect that manipultes melody in real time when you are playing on stage(and it isn&#039;t some random useless bleeping). This will be possible in version 8 because you can access midi notes in clips. Max is great and with version 8 live integration it is the future. :]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First great thing about max is that you can make plugin like volta in it. It has unlimited potential. For instance you can easily write such algorithms that generate note patterns that you couldn&#8217;t imagined off. Imagine effect that manipultes melody in real time when you are playing on stage(and it isn&#8217;t some random useless bleeping). This will be possible in version 8 because you can access midi notes in clips. Max is great and with version 8 live integration it is the future. :]</p>
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		<title>By: Jamie Bullock</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3394</link>
		<dc:creator>Jamie Bullock</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 16:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3394</guid>
		<description>I tend to think about this in terms of &#039;order of removal&#039;. Max is a programming language, and as you observe, it has the potential to remove you from the focus of the creative task at hand and into the (sometimes equally creative) realm of algorithms, data structures and program flow.

Now, when I write some software (e.g. a Max patch) that is completely geared towards one particular artistic work, I see this as &#039;first order removal&#039; from the creative task -- the programming is tightly coupled with the artistic goal. However if I write software for *general* use, e.g. a plugin, this becomes &#039;second order removal&#039; -- the programming process takes on a generic nature, only loosely related to the artistic task. 

The issue for me is to be clear about the purpose of my programming activity, and if I am primarily working towards artistic ends, to avoid the temptation to remove myself too far from the creative process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to think about this in terms of &#8216;order of removal&#8217;. Max is a programming language, and as you observe, it has the potential to remove you from the focus of the creative task at hand and into the (sometimes equally creative) realm of algorithms, data structures and program flow.</p>
<p>Now, when I write some software (e.g. a Max patch) that is completely geared towards one particular artistic work, I see this as &#8216;first order removal&#8217; from the creative task &#8212; the programming is tightly coupled with the artistic goal. However if I write software for *general* use, e.g. a plugin, this becomes &#8216;second order removal&#8217; &#8212; the programming process takes on a generic nature, only loosely related to the artistic task. </p>
<p>The issue for me is to be clear about the purpose of my programming activity, and if I am primarily working towards artistic ends, to avoid the temptation to remove myself too far from the creative process.</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas Wetterberg</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3392</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas Wetterberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3392</guid>
		<description>I think this is yet another sign that we&#039;re entering the era of the Interface for electronic music: our computers are getting really really powerful, so the big development will be in harnessing that power in a simpler fashion: MaxForLive will make it heaps more democratic than &quot;regular maxMSP/Jitter&quot;, and Volta uses the power of your audio interface to control your rig.

And there&#039;s some convergence in there: If you happen to use MaxMSP you could do the things Volta does out of the box(with the right interfaces, that is) - DC voltages can be generated by using only two objects and a cable - super-easy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think this is yet another sign that we&#8217;re entering the era of the Interface for electronic music: our computers are getting really really powerful, so the big development will be in harnessing that power in a simpler fashion: MaxForLive will make it heaps more democratic than &#8220;regular maxMSP/Jitter&#8221;, and Volta uses the power of your audio interface to control your rig.</p>
<p>And there&#8217;s some convergence in there: If you happen to use MaxMSP you could do the things Volta does out of the box(with the right interfaces, that is) &#8211; DC voltages can be generated by using only two objects and a cable &#8211; super-easy.</p>
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		<title>By: 2BiT</title>
		<link>http://www.wiretotheear.com/2009/01/21/max-for-live-and-volta-are-we-scientists/comment-page-1/#comment-3391</link>
		<dc:creator>2BiT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Jan 2009 15:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.wiretotheear.com/?p=2055#comment-3391</guid>
		<description>I think the main reason for all the excitement is that these 2 apps &#039;uncap&#039; the programs within which they run...certainly Max for Live blows the top off Live giving it virtually unlimited expandability for a &#039;one time&#039; price... Need a widget to plug your joystick or other sensor into Ableton? write one in Max! Want to add a real time random number generator to control your plugins? Ditto! Want to send MIDI and audio from softsynths to control visuals? Live-&gt;Max-&gt;Jitter! (along with pretty much anything else that you or the supernerds can come up with! including synths, FX, motor control, mouse organ etc)

Volta is a little more specific but again takes the software &#039;outside the box&#039; and allows it to talk to &#039;pre-digital&#039; machines which are very task-specific (for all the VST virtual analogue plugins out there, there&#039;s not much that can stand side by side with analogue goodness!).  And all this using hardware that&#039;s already in peoples studios...  It&#039;s a niche product but looks like the &#039;killer app&#039; for that particular niche.

Totally agree with you about the gear lust getting in the way of the music at times, but it&#039;s not really fair to blame the gear for that is it? :D 

BTW regular reader, love the blog, keep it up etc!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the main reason for all the excitement is that these 2 apps &#8216;uncap&#8217; the programs within which they run&#8230;certainly Max for Live blows the top off Live giving it virtually unlimited expandability for a &#8216;one time&#8217; price&#8230; Need a widget to plug your joystick or other sensor into Ableton? write one in Max! Want to add a real time random number generator to control your plugins? Ditto! Want to send MIDI and audio from softsynths to control visuals? Live-&gt;Max-&gt;Jitter! (along with pretty much anything else that you or the supernerds can come up with! including synths, FX, motor control, mouse organ etc)</p>
<p>Volta is a little more specific but again takes the software &#8216;outside the box&#8217; and allows it to talk to &#8216;pre-digital&#8217; machines which are very task-specific (for all the VST virtual analogue plugins out there, there&#8217;s not much that can stand side by side with analogue goodness!).  And all this using hardware that&#8217;s already in peoples studios&#8230;  It&#8217;s a niche product but looks like the &#8216;killer app&#8217; for that particular niche.</p>
<p>Totally agree with you about the gear lust getting in the way of the music at times, but it&#8217;s not really fair to blame the gear for that is it? :D </p>
<p>BTW regular reader, love the blog, keep it up etc!</p>
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