I’m big on education. The more you know the better your music will sound, the more jobs you will get, the more money you will be paid and the more fun you will have. Last week I was talking to a friend of mine in Spain and he was telling me about his experience at the SAE Insitute over there. First off, he told me he paid about 9000€. Immediately I let out a big gulp. Teachers should be paid yes. Equipment is expensive yes… but still. I give him “props” as he’s not a native Spanish speaker and all his classes are in Spanish. Because of this however his grades are low. This doesn’t reflect on his music or drive because his tracks are well produced and he’s involved with some decent commercial work already. However, he complains that he can never get studio time at the school except for early in the morning around 8:00AM. He also mentioned that he has several rotating substitute teachers, none of which he has confidence in. He doesn’t like that they gave him the cheapest Mac laptop (the white one). I guess he should have known which computer he was going to get before entering into the program.
I know this post could be seen as a little controversial but I got the notion it was a good topic because over at the Sound on Sound Magazine forums a new bloak asks what people think about SAE almost daily. Almost daily the reviews are mainly negative. Here’s an example: click here
“i’d do a cost analysis: student loans versus potential income. hmmmmmmm, let’s see… potential income = zero” – Sqye, Gearslutz Forum Member
So are any of you currently enrolled at SAE? What do you think? Any allumni want to chime? Is it worth it? I think a lot of people coming into the music business want to know.
Some forum threads on the subject at Gearslutz: click here and another one.
This entry was written by , posted on October 25, 2008 at 8:37 am, filed under Uncategorized and tagged learning, SAE, school. Bookmark the permalink. Follow any comments here with the RSS feed for this post.
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Hi!I was about to join SAE next year to do filmaking but I read too many bad things about this places.I dont know you 10 grants is a lot of money I almost sell a kidney to study there.My research tells me not to do so…
Also when you get to see the final film students projects,compare to london film school or academy, they are crap.I dont say my videos are far better but my kidney stills intact.
My girlfriend is attending SAE in LA and loves it. They extended studio time and the advantage SAE has over other schools is the studio time given to students. Like anything in life you get out of it what you put into it. Audio engineering is not for everyone. Make sure you are doing this for the right reasons and not as a hobby.
She feels she is getting a good education, and it was $ well spent.
SAE is not franchised all over like someone said. there are a couple of franchises one is Dubai not sure of the other but 99% of all other campuses are run by SAE home office. Even the franchised locations stay under the strict quality guidelines SAE has in place. I did this research prior to starting Audio Engineering at SAE LA. Don’t believe the bad stuff as this is probably from people who couldn’t cut the mustard as this is not an easy field to get into. SAE challenges me daily and the instructors know their stuff. I chose SAE over the LA Recording School due to its family feel and individual studio time. All my classmates are happy as well with the exception of a guy who quit last week due to missing too many days. If you are lazy and not ready to give it 100% plus do not waste your money as SAE is for people who are serious about music.
I would recommend SAE to friends and family any day as I love it so far! Don’t listen to the handful of nay sayers who probably have never seen the campus or attended and couldn’t hang..
SAE Los Angeles is dope! staff listens, cares, and most importantly I am earning! I love the field trips to the real studios on Hollywood. Awesome school! As far as SAE LA is concerned its good 2 go!
Hope you make the best decision for you!
regards,
Steven
I am attending SAE now in LA, and can only come to the conclusion that the negative comments come from people who couldn’t cut the mustard. It is not an easy business to learn, and SAE never guaranteed me a job, but did say they would do their best to help me. I am learning a ton and the staff is great. My only complaint was that I wanted longer studio hours. When I asked for extended hours management extended the hours! Audio Engineering is just like any other industry where you have to pay your dues. You have to work your way up from a studio runner, to an assistant, then an engineer.. Thats if you have the talent and are humble enough to climb the ladder with out expecting to do it all right out of school. I like that SAE painted the picture of how competitive the audio engineering field is.. Only the strong survive :-) . I like SAE and would recommend friends and family as long as they know what to expect from the industry.
So much hatred from folks that probably have never had a tour and seen SAE or from others who never had any business trying to learn this stuff in the first place. Its not easy! and you need talent!
I think the amount of written things against and about SAE tells the truth, SIMPLY NOT WORTH IT!!
My friend signed up this year and regretted it within a month, managed to get most of the money back and is now studying Film Making at the London Film School.
I have started the audio diploma at SAE London this september and am so far finding it great :) I believe it was a good choice as my teachers seem to be very knowledgeable and I am learning lots. After around 8-9 weeks of Golden Ears practical sessions, the EQ & Dynamics assignment, the audio edit assignment and many lectures I am seeing my knowledge of electronics, physics, maths and my ability to mix improve which for me is exiting. I imagine the course can only get better as we haven’t started our recording/post production assignments yet.
Don’t let everyone put you off SAE.
If you have the money, take a tour, ask students in the building of there opinion
and If its not your thing, I’m sure there are many other colleges equally as good!
You really can’t knock it ’till you’ve tried it.
WOW!!! I love this discussion. lol so much propaganda, as for me im going to be finishing a National diploma next year and want to go further with my education as i feel there is alot more for me to learn. Whether its getting my foot into a studio or going to an educationl faciity, to be honest SAE seems like “The Shortcut”. I’ve been looking into going to sae london for about a year and decided last week that im not when i found out SAE is actually a franchise..
http://www.saelicensing.com/
I think i might just sign up to, get a bank loan and have my own little SAE branch in canterbury!!! Why not!!! lol
Now from what i gathered some SAE institutes might be brilliant some might not, due to the nature of who owns which franchise. I dont want to study with a corporate company that may or may not have good managers and staff.
Regardless of their quality gear having passionate lecturers that care about where you want to be is important for your own confidence, having someone lecturing that doesnt give a crap about you and just want his/her pay check it can be very damaging not only to the student but the institution aswell.
At the end of the day your putting in £10000 and for that you expect to get at least a basic level of compitence and lecturers that cre about their jobs and the students. other than that the £10000 opens a door
that not many people get the chance to go through.
As for the illegal software it shows to me that the business men/women investing in opening up new franchises dont know how exspensive the whole professional studio shabang is, day one of my music tech course we learnt that, along with how hard and cut throat the industry is. I find this disgusting as not only have they tarnished the whole SAE franchise but the audio engeering industry,
I shall stop rambling and leave you with some little advice from my personal research:
Remember SAE is a franchise, who knows who own each individual one, lets just hope most of them are music industry proffesionals…..
For £10000 you could setup a basic recording setup, start recording local bands for free, with these recording you stick them in your portfolio, if you have the drive and know about audio engineering.. If your someome who knows nothing about music technology i recomend going to your local college, yes they may not have £600 000 mixing desks but you will learn a lot of the basics in a wide aspect of areas within the music industry, and if you have the drive you will go that extra mile and do some researcing and epanding your knnowledge.
Once youve built up a little portfolio start requsting jobs within studios, show them your work, tell them what equipment youve used on your recordings! But dont expect to be hands on on the mixing desk if you do get a job. Just starting off as a tea boy is great! you’ve got foot in the door and from that point you put 110% in, it might take 6 months it might take 6 years but if your passioate and you have a dream you’ll get there in the end.
oops ive rambled on again :)
Anyway SAE isn’t for me so i believe that SAE is not worth the money!
Regards
Marcus
Forgot to mention this is what is said on the licensing website in their investments and benifits section:
“In the creative media industry and its related sub sectors, there will never be a saturation point for formally trained engineers and producers because of the dynamic nature of the industry. There will always be new technical innovations which require trained and re-trained engineers and producers before the creative talent can leverage upon it. Therefore, to invest in the business of providing education in these fields will always be relevant provided that the curriculum is always updated to keep up with current technology levels. ”
So if youve got the drive to become a studio engineer or something then GO FOR IT! Engineer and producers in the feild! SAE is your place!!
Hi Marcus,
If you look more closely, on the saelicensing website there is an animation with the title “Territories for Licensing” showing the countries that this applies to, e.g. countries like Botswana and Belarus. You will not see countries like the UK or Germany there – as these are not franchises. All operations in ‘core’ (‘western’) countries are directly owned by SAE. Sorry to disillusion your ideas about your own SAE in Canterbury, but that’s not going to happen …
All SAEs whether they’re franchises (e.g. India, Thailand) or ‘normal’ (UK, USA, etc etc) are subject to quality control mechanisms – in addition to all sorts of regulations and approvals in each country (e.g. ISO9001 in Germany, state accreditations in USA, BAC/Skillset in UK etc).
So, you can be assured that there is not this uncertainty as you describe it.
I hope this helps.
Greetings,
Matthias Postel
SAE UK
SAE Amsterdam is definitely not worth spending any money on.
These guys aren’t to be respected at all.
I can’t even imagine how these guys can bare to live with themselves putting off this awful scam.
Not only do I find it an insult to people who have
The only way I found a job is because I have the passion, but I really feel insulted and disrespected.
I was naive and actually I knew the school would have been a total joke.
The only reason I went there is because I had to chance to use studio’s, but man, you could rather do a daytime job and bag to be a coffeeboy in a studio and climb all the way up.
The point of studying is that you get a good education so you shouldn’t do this coffeeboything in the future.
If you don’t have any talent, there is no way you are going to make it with this education.
I did it, I did the goddamn thing, and please…spare me to even consider going back there.
The only thing they are after is your money, i even think they don’t want talent at there school, cause these people who get attention can tear the whole thing down…
Everywhere I come, I try not to speak about it, I just have my portfolio and never say a goddamn word about the school.
They are worse than a bunch of crack-junkies doing what they can to get some money…
And really, the things I heard there from teachers, man, it’s just sad!
Please,
Even if you’d like to record music, consider something else…
You are not going to go out of the school with a job, a good feeling or connections…
the only thing you know is that you lost 10000 precious dollars, and really than they become precious, that’s even the worst thing…
It’s all about the money, it’s almost like a sect!
I tell you, go there for a tour, and laugh, laugh hard…so they wake up and get a sense of respect…
Bunch of losers there, man!
Found this on the Sound on Sound Forum.. SAE Institute has gone into liquidation :)
SAE EDUCATIONAL TRUST LIMITED Liquidation
(Company Number 03077134)
At a General Meeting of the above named Company, duly convened
and held at One Great Cumberland Place, Marble Arch, London,
W1H 7LW on the 19 October 2009 the following Resolutions were
passed as a Special Resolution and an Ordinary Resolution
respectively:-
“That the Company be wound up voluntarily and that N A Bennett,
of Leonard Curtis, One Great Cumberland Place, Marble Arch,
London W1H 7LW, be and is hereby appointed the Liquidator of the
Company for the purposes of such winding up.”
Full Story here:
http://www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/59219/pages/18189
SAE Institute
From : youtube
Company Number: 03077134.
Name of Company: SAE EDUCATIONAL TRUST LIMITED.
Nature of Business: Educational services.
Type of Liquidation: Creditors.
Address of Registered Office: One Great Cumberland Place, Marble
Arch, London W1H 7LW.
Liquidator’s Name and Address: N A Bennett, of Leonard Curtis,
One Great Cumberland Place, Marble Arch, London W1H 7LW.
Office Holder Number: 9083.
Date of Appointment: 19 October 2009.
By whom Appointed: Members and Creditors
From all I can see SAE is run by a different company: http://london.sae.edu/en-gb/content/77/About_Us
I ordered a brochure the other day and there’s only reference to that company on the letterhead etc.
I visited last week for a tour in London and the college is most definitely up and running (quite impressive actually). They mentioned that they have christmas holidays now until first week of January, but I think that’s like every year.
So I think what you found must be relating to some old company structure.
I noticed on the SAE website that this Matthias Postel is no longer the Manager at SAE London. Probably his fault they went into liquidation anyway by reading the comments on here. He also writes on here “are subject to quality control mechanisms” if he’d been subject to quality control maybe SAE would not have gone into liquidation in the first place.
hey people,
is there anybody who actually got a job offer after graduating from SAE? im planning to go to SAE NY. in an interview Misner claimed that he has to place the 75% of his graduates in NY due to a state law. (sry bout my terrible english) i really want to get a job in NY related to audio engineering cause some of my relatives live there. i’ve been recording/composing/performing music for 7 years. do you think its possible?
went to sae london to study web design. biggest mistake of my life.
7 grand for the first year, 90% of the stuff you learn can be learned online at the comfort of your own home for FREE.
my fucking tutor was an ex student and my web design skills were better than his.
my graphics design tutor couldn’t even speak english properly, even made a few spelling mistakes in one of the e-mails he sent me. he couldn’t even run a lesson properly. classrooms were packed and smelly.
they’ve tried putting me 2 grand into debt when all i had to pay was a cancellation fee.
I read this post with interest after noticing that SAE were starting to broadcast a few more interviews with music producers and industry types. Great news, i thought, finally i might start learning a little more post my HND qualification from SAE Liverpool in 2003, something that might be comparable to graduate support……
I ended up there after enrolling at Liverpool uni to do Music as they had promised they were building a new Recording suite in 2002 which we would have lots of access to. After the 1st year it was still not completed so i started to look at LIPA (the Mcartney funded/ affiliation) organisation, before discovering SAE which was newly opened.
I finished the audio engineering diploma and after a spell being treated like a retard in Metropolis studio London (all through my own contacts, nothing to do with SAE graduate support) i spent some (considerable) money making what is now cut and sussed records studio. Its been a lot of hard work with very little finincial reward for the last 7 years. Truth be told, i built a recording studio in Durham (UK)- possibly an error in hindsight as since the 70s Durham might as well not exist on the music map. I get by doing a mixture of DJ work, PA hire and recording sessions, mostly for new- ish bands and solo singers. Barely break even, but (like a fine wine……. ahem) im improving with age.
I do love working with people making music so its not all doom and gloom, and i make a living now but only after 4 or more years of not having ANY money whilst i built the contacts necessary to support myself. This is the key point i wish to make with my comments here. SAE have been, in a word, TERRIBLE with grad support. I will balance that with the following facts: we were supposed to visit SAE London to work on their Neve Legend but the trip was cancelled, so when i had a chance to get some work engineering for Paul Tucker (Lighthouse Family) a year or so after i graduated, who happened to have a Neve Legend, i was allowed to re- visit SAE Liverpool to sit in the classes who were learning how to use the newli installed Neve (replacing the Soundtracks Jade console).
But back to my point- there is no grad support as far as i am concerned. Never once have they pointed an opportunity my way, and i’ve never received any emails telling me about vacant posts in the industry, or inviting me to revisit the college for talks from Industry people. As i mentioned: terrible. So, what should you take form this if you are considering going to SAE??
My advice is to go if you are 100% committed to being an audio engineer and will do ANYTHING and stop at NOTHING to get into the industry. You Must be prepared to act as anyone who works freelance does- you gotta be brazen, sell yourself at EVERY poortunity, say goodbye to being mr nice/ shy/ retiring guy and focus instead on getting your feet in doors, talking (often lying in fact) to people and essentially continually push to get a lead in the industry, as SAE are not going to do any of this for you. Be prepared to diversify. Be prepared to have no money for at least 2- 3 years after you graduate (unless you FLUKE it and record a demo of a band that gets signed, has a few hits and you get a royalty or similar). I’ve made enough money to pay tax for the last three years, and am on an upward curve after 7 years working at it, but previously money was TIGHT.
SAE offers you the chance to get the experience and expertise to get ahead in audio. What it doesnt do is spoon feed you it, all it does is give you the potential to achieve it which is why it is so important to decide what you want earlier rather than later.
I now also work as a freelance photographer, and regularly work for Northumbria University design department. As much as photography is a passion, its also just because i couldnt find enough money in recording. Their graduate recruitment record makes me green with envy, and their post grad support bears no similarity to SAE.
Ok, ive said my piece, i hope this helps people make an important life decision.
James
I studied Audio production at SIT, Invercargill-New Zealand, and guess what………. IT WAS FREE… ZERO… ZIP.. NOTHING! well a little bit, but over 3 years I spent NZ$8500, and most of this was to go and study at SAE Byron bay Australia.. so for three years I pretty much had unlimited studio time and some fairly decent tutors (great people!) and then went to study in OZ for a couple of months, this giving me both a SIT and a SAE stamp on my Bachelor of Audio… woop woop! I was chocked to hear what my mates over there spent on their fees and I can’t believe that I have hardly paid anything.. look into it sit.ac.nz (for New zealanders and Australians-conditions apply).. a bit of advertising there, but I seriously think to get into this business, just get out there! start working and if you want to get some guidelines go and study, but get your hands dirty!
HI, firstly I want to excuse me for my elementary language, but I’m a nineteen italian student with a basic level of english.
Next year I’ve decided to move to London to study audio engineering.
I’ve worked in these last 3 years as a live sound engineer, but I’ve also ascertained that it’s impossible to continue these type of work in Italy. this profession is not recognized as a real work here.
I’m confused, becouse I have no idea of what is the best school in England to study sound engineering. In Italy, for exemple SAE have not a good reputation, and it is too expensive for me ( 9,000 Euro each years).
Can you help me?
I’ve contacted the London School of Sound, what do you think about it?
and SAE in London? or Point Blank (http://www.pointblanklondon.com/ ) ?
from here it’s difficult to choose the right school…
thank you! Mary
Hi,
You will need to make your own comparison. I visited all 3 (and more) and was most impressed with SAE. I have applied and will join their April course. Also spoke to students and ex-students who all had a good time there despite a few realistic criticisms here and there.
Good luck,
Sean
Hi my suggestion is get the software and teach yourself.
I have never had a lesson in my life everything I have learned is through the experience of doing it, trial and error.
I would not go on a course unless I had the software because if you cant practice forget it. I have been using Cubase for the last 15 years and I looked into learning Ableton Live, very expensive so instead I got a cut down version of the program a couple of videos from Groove 3 and learnt the basics then I went to Covert Operators and some other sites like Tom Cosm.com and checked out some other videos to learn the tricks and tips that I need to put across our live set onstage and create and produce my ideas
By the way I am a teacher, but you dont always need one is what I am trying to say. All the best in your search Gerald CLING
POINT BLANK is so much better than SAE, industry teachers (not former students)
I can highly recommend it as I studied there myself and now working as a programmer in a studio.
I have a friend who did the SAE course and he applied for more than 50 jobs, he got 7 replies saying something like: “they would never accept anyone from SAE as their diploma/degree courses are worthless.
He now works as a salesman and thinking of doing another course at Point Blank. He’s really unhappy about having wasted nearly £20000 on his degree at SAE.
Brian
Point Blank does not offer a degree, whereas SAE London offers a degree validated by middlesex university. (I have nothing against Point Blank and am not saying it isn’t worth while). Anyway what I wanted to mention is that my teacher at SAE who, yes IS a former student has recently completed recording projects at Abbey Road and The Way Studios. We also have guest lectures from industry professionals every couple of weeks so we don’t exactly miss out on industry teaching.
I think that people who come on here and slag off SAE even though they haven’t even studied there are a little sad. people should make there own decisions. I’m not sticking up for SAE because i’m a student there. Simply because I believe that it is worthwhile.
P.S Another good reason to go is to take advantage of the great studios they have there. I chose to go to SAE london and have not regretted it.
The degree is only validated by middlesex, you don’t actually get to go in middlesex uni and get some lectures from their staff.
i’ve studied at sae for the past two years and it was a big mistake, waste of money.
My thoughts about SAE London after 6 months as an audio engineering student.
They consider it being a full-time course.
In reality it means you have 2,5 hours of lectures (with a 20-30 minutes break), monday to thursday.
Every now and then they throw in a practical lecture on fridays (5 so far).
So, you are left off with roughly 8 hours of tuition per week.
If you want to read up on a subject, and thus making it full-time, that is up to you, the student. Also, the topics are merely touched upon, so further reading is a must.
The first 6 months will only be theoretical and taught in a classroom, (no studio-time what so ever) and there will be one exam.
There will be a few assignments for the students to finish on their own during this time, but they are very basic in my opinion.
At SAE London there is no storage-room for the students to store equipment or musical instruments.
I know it is not a music college, but there are no musical instruments to book out.
If you need instruments to record, you get them from a rental company with a discount.
You can’t play/record loud instruments after 10 pm, because of complaining neighbours, (they studios are not properly built for the purpose).
There is no such thing as one-on-one tuition at SAE.
If you are in a studio and something is not working, for whatever reason, you can ask one of the supervisors on duty for help.
The school opens at 10 am on mondays, and closes at 18 pm on saturdays.
The school is, and will be closed on sundays.
After 6 months you start to learn and manoeuvre two different digital consoles, and after passing a signal flow exam, you can start using those two studios.
For the bigger consoles (SSL G+ and Neve Genesys) it seems like I have to wait another 3 months.
All the teaching staff at SAE London are former students from SAE.
My class started out with 16 people. Now we are down to 10.
The reason why people quit is because they felt let down, and not getting their moneys worth.
In the hope for change, the rest of us still hang on, but I don’t see when things would eventually change for the better.
From being interested in music and recording for fun for some years, I have gained some knowledge along the way.
I thought that by studying at SAE i would get an hands-on education, filling the gaps of my self-taught knowledge.
So far, i don’t see that happening.
What I have learned so far, is that the SAE only want your money.
What they teach, you can teach yourself on your own for free, (no joke or exaggeration).
Actually, it is up to you read up on the subjects that are briefly explained by the lecturers.
If you still feel like an education like this is the way to go, find all the information necessary from the internet, forums, friends, etc.
Don’t trust the advertisements from colleges or universities, (that is what they do best).
Since i have paid in instalments, I have decided to quit the course, save my money, and look for studio work as an apprentice instead.
My tips is to buy yourself a couple of good books on various suitable topics, buy some decent equipment and try it out yourself.
Search the web for free online tuition.
Call a few studios and see if they would consider taking you in if you were an SAE graduate.
My conclusion:
I don’t think studying at the SAE institute is worthwhile.
NICE ONE and so true, this so called college is only after your money. the employ students to “teach” you because it’s cheaper than getting someone pro from the industry.
As you said their studios are not even build for the purpose of recording but build the cheapest possible way.
Furthermore if anyone believe the degree from Middlesex is worth anything then you are fooled by them as you will never attend one single class at middlesex, no the same former students will teach you the degree stuff and SAE simply pays Middlesex for the piece of paper and the right to use their name in advertising.
You made the right choice to quit, all the best of luck
Jon
I’m am a graduate of SAE (Australia). I had a live sound job within 3 months (live sound is abundant in oz!). I got a studio job within 12 months. Travelled the world. Opened my own studio 5 years later.
Unless you are completely focused you will not make it! Audio engineering, Music production, sounds like fun, right? Well it is, but it comes at a cost. A cost, that for me, was money well spent, and a lose of social life. My 1st studio job was 70-80 hours a week! Why have I succeeded? Because I work HARD. Why do some fail? because they do not. Simple.
I will agree that not all SAE’s are created equal. That is why you go to the college, speak the the staff AND students! Make an informed decision not one base on other peoples opinions of other people in other parts of the world.
As a former member of staff at SAE in London, I want to just say that what students write about college is true.
Sae is not about students but about money, making money, so take a good look at the advertisement and go and see what they actually offer.
As soon as you have signed up you are stuck in an endless circle of bad management and your dreams will soon be broken by the poor knowledge of your teacher.
Since the day Tom Misner said he recorded the Beatles hes mission wass never been to educate anyone, before SAE he was a cleaner, not a producer or engineer of the Beatles. it’s all in his book and the use of illegal software, stolen equipment.
Don’t waste your money, it’s far from the only audio engineering option